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Scarier Then Terrorists
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 18:5, 11/02/2009
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Today my Congressional Representative dropped this little gem in the House.
"I believe that the greatest fear that we all should have ... to our freedom comes from this room, this very room, and what may happen later this week in terms of a tax increase bill masquerading as a health care bill," she said. "I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country."
Seriously? Disagree with it to the nth degree. But do you truly feel it is on a level with religious fanatics who blow themselves up in the hopes of eternal paradise for themselves and their entire family? Do you think our soldiers will agree with this assessment? Do you think those who died in the World Trade Center would agree? In the Pentagon? In that corn field in Pennsylvania?
Incredible.
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fiesta pantalones
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Posted 20:19, 11/02/2009
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Maybe. Congressmen and women can do a lot more damage than any terrorist could ever hope to. That is a 100% accurate statement.
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Rivers Edge
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Posted 20:44, 11/02/2009
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She is trying to make a point Kate, its a very valid point. Sometimes you have to have alittle "shock and awe" to make people listen to what you are saying. Don't take what she is saying out of context. The truth of the matter is that yes, we should be concerned about what Government is doing, or trying to do to the citizens.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 20:57, 11/02/2009
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Rivers, I understand the tool of exaggeration for affect ... This statement ... the point she sought to make ... is lost in the idiocy of the exaggeration.
I'm sick to death of being told to be afraid. Be afraid. Be afraid. This is going to ruin us. This is the end of America.
This is no time for fear-mongering hyperbole. But if it feeds her need, well, then ... I'll continue to correspond with my representative and I'll take my privilege of a vote and use it accordingly ... again ... maybe it will work next time.
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babysitter
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Posted 21:27, 11/02/2009
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JUST SAYING
Fear is the foundation of most government.
-- John Adams
Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire,
it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
--George Washington
When the people fear their government, their is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. -Thomas Jefferson
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. -Thomas Jefferson
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. -Thomas Jefferson
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
- Mark Twain
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michelekibbler
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Posted 21:30, 11/02/2009
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Kate, I respectfully disagree with you. This isn't fear-mongering, it is reality. I was born in England and still have some family friends that live there, and the health care is awful, especially for the elderly. There are other solutions besides socialized medicine here in the US. The government does not run anything well. Yes, we need to reform health care, but I don't want Obama-care.
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babysitter
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Posted 21:30, 11/02/2009
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JUST SAYING
Fear is the foundation of most government.
-- John Adams
Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire,
it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
--George Washington
When the people fear their government, their is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. -Thomas Jefferson
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. -Thomas Jefferson
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. -Thomas Jefferson
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
- Mark Twain
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babysitter
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Posted 21:32, 11/02/2009
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Woops, double whammie. How did that happen?
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 21:42, 11/02/2009
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Babysitter, those are great quotes. Thank you for sharing them. I've spent the greater portion of my adulthood being told to be afraid by mostly Conservative Republicans. That got worse after 9/11. I'm sick of it. If England had taken that approach in the 1940s I doubt they'd have survived WWII.
I'm an American. I come from stock that fixed things. Saw an issue and addressed it. Not from people who were afraid of the shadows and this is too often the message I perceive from the Right.
I understand that this doesn't jive with many people's perception here and likely not yours. I'm not saying the health reform as it currently stands is the answer ... but I truly wish Congress would stick to the facts and solutions ... not fear, please.
And the double posting ... this site has occasionally done some weird things ... don't worry, though. That was a good post and deserved two spots.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 21:49, 11/02/2009
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Michelle, I do not disagree with you. And yes, I do get what Rep. Foxx's point was and I don't necessarily disagree with it, either at its fundamental core.
However ... her choice of words ... I stood on the shore of the Hudson and watched the towers burn and went to the cornfield in Pennsylvania and felt the loss and heroism there ... I have friends and the children of friends serving currently in places from where too many have to come home to use the VA health care system because of IEDs ...
Her choice of words leave me cold and disgusted. Embarrassed and weary.
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babysitter
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Posted 21:58, 11/02/2009
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Kate> "Babysitter, those are great quotes"
What would be the difference between Jefferson's quote> "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." and Congress Woman Fox statement?> "I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country."
JUST ASKING!
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Stokes
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Posted 22:26, 11/02/2009
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Kate, if congress would stick to facts and bring forward solutions accordingly, there would be no FEAR.
You may be sick of being afraid but I am just as sick of what Obama and congress have been doing the last 10 months and the cavalier attitudes that is is ok. This fear is real. I was in DC on Sept 12, 2009 and I saw the million plus people, talked to over 200 people that day who had NEVER been politically involved but felt like they have to make their voices heard.
Look back at your first and second posts on this thread. How could you wonder why someone like me would not be really riled after reading them and want to tell you to stick a sock in it?
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slab
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Posted 22:50, 11/02/2009
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Virginia just likes the attention. She doesn't really believe the things she says. She just knows it makes her followers happy. Read this thread if you don't believe me.
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Stokes
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Posted 23:6, 11/02/2009
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Slab, you really do not believe that to be true. 90% of her followers pay no attention to what is going on in Washington or who is voting how!!!
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fiesta pantalones
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Posted 23:16, 11/02/2009
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How can you people be missing the fundimental truth of what she is saying?
Terrorists will never ever ever be able to destroy this country. Some fool with a bomb on his chest or hijacking a plane will never be able to bring down something like America. It can be destroyed by people in Washington.
It is happening right now. It has been happening for years. Everytime Congress passes a new law, you can bet that they gain power and you lose some. I say let them argue this healthcare bill for the next 10 years. The longer they are distracted the better for America.
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slab
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Posted 6:11, 11/03/2009
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hmm stokes, you are absolutely right. What was I thinking?? Matter of fact, I am not so sure the true stokes wrote that... lol
fiesta, very good explanation there. If Virginia would make statements like that instead of ones that get her attention, she'd be liked better. If she'd stop voting no on every bill that comes through, she'd be liked better.
Can you guys tell me ONE single bill Virginia voted for or against that you disliked how she voted? Just one. You can pick any of them.
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Stokes
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Posted 8:30, 11/03/2009
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Oh yes, I wrote that, Slab. That sleeping giant that has paid no attention for so long is beginning to wake up. That is why we had so many of them in Washington DC on Sept. 12, 2009. There is going to be a march on Raleigh on Nov. 14 to send our "wonderful" governor a message. I think there will be some messages sent today to Obama in New Jersey, Virginia and especially New York as well. I do not always agree with Virginia. As I have stated, I have NEVER voted a straight ticket and that has been a lot of elections. This time she is right on.
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LeRoy B...
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Posted 13:14, 11/03/2009
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Kate & slab: Evidently you people have never had any surgeries.I have and I have 3 Insurances,VA,Medicare,Tricare Thats right 3,all goverment related. They don't pay worth a Damm, I mean Darn. I got a Bill from my DR. I still owe $7500.00 on that , all 3 refuses to pay more, The VA charged me $1000 and $24 dollars and coded it out for rest home .Duh!! I went to a Hospital for the Surgery. I don't care for Obama's and Nacy's insurance if its like this...
Therefore I say more power to congress woman FOX. and others that are fighting this health care mess. Christmas looks bleak at my house.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 15:50, 11/03/2009
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Babysitter, that is a reasonable comparison to make. And if the last few years haven't proven Jefferson's words to be utterly true then I don't know what would ...
However, my issue with Rep. Foxx is that I've read through her available words on-line and from what I remember hearing and I cannot get a grasp on what she stands FOR ... clearly what she stands against. Just about everything ... but bring a solution forward? I haven't seen much of that in her words ...
And her words, as I posted earlier, seem geared to evoke fear and nothing more.
I will be the first to admit the government can do more damage to the American fabric and freedoms. I hold much of Pres. Reagan's time in office and Pres. GW Bush's time there as proof positive of that sentiment.
But, I still take exception with her choice of phrasing. Stop telling us to be afraid ... and put forward solutions to make us stronger.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 15:57, 11/03/2009
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Stokes, one correction ... I'm not sick of being afraid. I've grown up in America. I don't know fear much. Now, I have friends in Iraq and Afghanistan, we know a family who moved here from Serbia, I have a friend from my church back in PA who's been working with a mission in Rowanda ... I have never known fear as it exists in this world.
I am not afraid. I'm tired of being told to be afraid ... which, from my point of view, has been about all the vocal parts of the Republican party have been saying since those godforsaken planes hit.
As to the other part of your post, it is your opinion and you are fully entitled to it. I don't necessarily agree with it but that's the basis of our citizenship rights, yes? President Obama and his administration have spent 10 months dealing with the messes they were left ... the bail outs were left overs from Pres. Bush ... and a lot of how that money was to be spent/handled ...
Well, I know my thoughts on Pres. Obama are really not shared by many here ... but can we at least agree that a big chunk of what he's done has simply been to administer the programs put in place by Pres. Bush?
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liberalbender
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Posted 16:13, 11/03/2009
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I think Kate's point is that alot of us are sick of the rants from any side of the aisle. They should not be telling us to fear each other, or fear ideas from the other side! If this over the top attitude keeps up-there will be fist fights on the floor of the Senate! Not really a bad idea if they sell tickets!
Leroy-Christmas will not be bleak because of President Obama-the recession started BEFORE he went to the White House.
Slab-how about HR1, HR2, HR4, HR5, HR6, HR6061, S686, HR1105, HR1592 just to name a few. She was for the 700 miles of fence and against the rest. They included lower student loan interest rates, repeal of oil company tax cuts, allow government to negotiate with drug companies, impliment 9/11 Commission recomendations, etc. She voted NO on extending unemployment, protecting wild horses, helping workers whose jobs are lost overseas,
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 16:21, 11/03/2009
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Lib, you nailed it. I had gotten tunnel vision on the matter ... it isn't just the Republicans who are annoying me ... it's all of them who are playing party politics instead of getting to the job of taking care of this country.
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LeRoy B...
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Posted 16:41, 11/03/2009
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liberalbender: The ecomony hasn't gotten any better since your Great one took office. He 's too busy taking the Mrs out on a date and flying all over the World and Apologizeing to all the countries who supported him.
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liberalbender
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Posted 16:57, 11/03/2009
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Sorry, my computer restarted itself due to an upgrade while I was at the door. But Virginia Foxx's voting record is almost all against...and that is ok, if she can show me what she is for-but I can't find it. And I really resent anyone using fear to motivate. That is terrorist tactics!
And Fiesta-she voted for warrantless wiretaps. Talk about losing freedom. And we need government to evolve as the world evolves-we just need to keep the pork out.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 17:9, 11/03/2009
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LeRoy, do you seriously not think the economy has started to improve?
AND
Do you seriously think that an economy that tanked as deeply and as hard as ours has done and that took ~years~ to get that bad ... is going to show WOWIE improvement in 10 months?
Seriously.
As to the date nights. I think that's an incredibly healthy thing for him to be doing and an example for the rest of married couples in this country. Make the balance between work and family as deliberate as anything else in your life.
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LeRoy B...
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Posted 18:23, 11/03/2009
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Yeah Kate, That would be nice to go out and sip on a $ 400.00 bottle of wine with a Meal Costing the TAXPAYERS A few Hundred thousands of Bucks.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 19:3, 11/03/2009
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Yeah, well, LeRoy, I wasn't there and don't know what they had or who paid for what and I don't give a great rat's hind end.
I don't guess you'd want the stress and responsibility of the job, either. In the grand scheme of things I will not begrudge the president of this nation the occasional splurge.
And I won't hold a microscope to his and his family's life while they serve this nation. Talk about stingy!
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slab
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Posted 20:16, 11/03/2009
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I heard all of Foxx's speach today and she used the word FEAR I don't know how many times. She is a sad pathetic woman. PLEASE NC WAKE UP.. Let's get her OUT OF OFFICE next time. Unfortunately too many people seem to be swinging to the GOP.. Va. Gov just today.. so that will probably help Foxx too. Pity us.
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Big Kahuna
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Posted 20:22, 11/03/2009
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Kate I'm so glad that you are such a rich person that you consider other people stingy when they express their opinions of Obama's expensive night out. Oh but I forgot you don't call people any names (stingy) though do you.
From a former Air Force Colonel....
Subject: The Date
First, let me say that I've moved three presidents up to now and I've seen incredible waste. But, the "new" guy really takes the cake. I don't have an issue with the President promising his wife dinner and a show or that he even takes his wife out.
But, when I saw the news say that the date cost $24,000, here's what you DON'T know.
Three days before "dinner" a C-17 flew Marines and the helicopter maintenance equipment to JFK Airport .
The day before "dinner" I flew the US Secret Service (USSS) and the motorcade to JFK Airport .
Our crew of 5 spent two days and nights at the Hilton in Times Square . My hotel bill: $621.66 plus $64 a day in per diem. The USSS guys were at a different Hilton in NYC, so figure that cost another $14,000 (or so) plus per diem. The Marines had to have cost as much and were there four days, so figure another $55,000 plus per diem (for 44 Marines).
We were supposed to fly the motorcade back and go home, but the Air Force was so short C-17's that we were re-tasked to take the motorcade back,return to JFK and take the helicopter back to Quantico.
When we got back to JFK, while the pilot was turning the plane around to park, he noticed a rotor blade sticking out of the hangar where the helicopter was parked and informed me that either it wasn't ready to transport or it was flying home. After shutting down I walked over to the hangar and to my surprise I find FIVE helicopters, not ONE.
We're obviously not transporting five big helicopters. I went and talked to the Marines guarding the "fleet" and found that they were flying all five helicopters home and we were only transporting the Marines and the maintenance equipment. After talking to the Marine(s) in charge, I was told that the White House requested FIVE helicopters. The Marines told me that they spent all morning trying to figure out how much it cost them to come and said they figured it cost them $140,000 to stay there (I don't know where they came up with that)and the trip's total had to be about $1,000,000.
We heard that the President didn't use Air Force One (the 747) so I asked if he came in on one of the 757's. I was told that he came in on THREE Air Force Lear jets.
So, date night consisted of:
2 C-17's flying three missions,
3 Lear jets,
5 Helicopters,
1 Presidential Motorcade,
44 US Marines, more than 20 USSS personnel on just our plane.
Who knows what it cost the NYPD and NY Port Authority (at the airport) in overtime.
These are the same people that chastised the automobile CEO's for using their aircraft. It further proves that the media only use the facts that make the President look good and hide any facts that will detract from his persona.
Is this the 'change' we expected?
Talk with friends and those who are not blinded by charisma. Many folks I know who voted for Obama are very disappointed and sorry they did so.
The Emperor's clothes on a grand scale.
"Transparency"? Remember, 2010 is just around the corner. All we have to do is survive long enough...
I found this interesting info about that night.
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Stokes
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Posted 21:16, 11/03/2009
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KateRauhauserSmith Posted 19:3, 11/03/2009
Yeah, well, LeRoy, I wasn't there and don't know what they had or who paid for what and I don't give a great rat's hind end.
Kate, you stated on the universal healthcare thread about how hard it was when your family did not have health insurance - before your husband got coverage at his current employer. Yet you make a statement like the one above about a president wasting the taxpayers' money for a date night when almost 10% of Americans are not able to put all the food on their family's table that they need to because they are unemployed. Give me a friggin break. No wonder you think Obamacare and how much it is going to cost and what it will do to the insurance companies is ok.
Obama administering Bush's programs? Where in the hell did that come from? Then you want to take a pot shot at Reagan that prevented the second great depression that Jimmy Carter almost caused? Pleeezzzz!!!
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 23:3, 11/03/2009
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Stokes, in the great larger scheme of things that date night is a pittance. And I don't know what the allowance for travel and other expenditures is for the President. With all the rest of what's going on I can hardly believe this is an issue.
And yeah, it was tough for us and sometimes it still is. That has exactly nothing to do with how much taxpayer money was spent that night ... or for any night the Bushes spent together at taxpayer expense.
I've never once said I'm in favor of the current bill. I'm still learning and researching.
I am in favor of the process, which I have stated clearly.
And I took no pot shot at the Great Communicator. This is history. Decisions made in his presidency laid the ground work for any number of issues we're currently dealing with ... Contra comes to mind right off the top, o, yeah, and he's the one that started the deregulation feeding frenzy. It was good in the short term but how much damage can be calculated from that action now?
And, the greatest issue I have with that administration ... the great cover up that was obviously perpetrated on the American people ... How long was he impaired by his incredibly sad dementia affliction while in the Oval office?
But his staff and his wife covered it up.
He was a marvelous communicator and did a number of invaluable things as president. His message to the country after the shuttle disaster ... his relationship with the Russian leader ... his demand the wall be torn down ...
But he was not perfect. No more then any other president has been or will be.
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walks the talk
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Posted 0:53, 11/04/2009
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Big Kahuna, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Thank you for that post. Must've been a helluva date they had on our money.
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walks the talk
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Posted 0:57, 11/04/2009
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And~ Go, Virginia! The obamessiah is the one putting the fear out there.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 6:53, 11/04/2009
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Kahuna, first let me say that I cannot believe a date night can be considered this incredibly important to garner so much ire and attention.
Second, if we're going to start calculating cost, don't come back with anything until you've calculated the cost of Pres. Bush's frequent vacations and time out of DC.
Pres. Bush spent 487 days at Camp David during 149 separate trips. He spent 490 days (on 77 trips) on his ranch in Crawfor, TX and 43 days on 11 different trips in Kennybunkport at his parents' place. That totals to 1020 days or more then a third of his presidency getting away from the White House.
Each of those trips cost the taxpayers of this nation a great deal of money because the President of the United States of American MUST be accompanied by a huge staff and security.
The fact that he conducted business from Crawford simply tells me that he had to transplant a significant swath of administration staff and resources.
I don't know the cost. I've looked a bit and can't find it. But if people are going to get their panties in a twist over a $24,000 date night, let's keep it on a level playing field and pull comparative information from Pres. Bush's time ... or Pres. Clinton's ... Or President Reagan's ... I seem to remember Pres. Reagan spending a lot of time not in DC as well.
And if the worst you can accuse me of doing in my posts is calling concern over something this ultimately trivial stingy, then have at it.
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JustAGuy
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Posted 9:4, 11/04/2009
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I've got a problem with the letter supposedly written by a former Air Force Colonel. How come youall take it at face value? How come no one has said a Former Airforce Col (involved with the Broadway date night out) that just happened to retire in time to be a cost whistle blower? I can't find anywhere where the former Air Force Colonel is actually named, nor can I find a reputable source for the letter. All I can find is it referenced in blogs, or mostly mentions of it on comments to stories about the Broadway date night. While I admit that the trip was probably more expensive than one might think at 1st glance, I suspect that the author has padded the cost by adding expenses that probably were not there....Additionally I find it difficult to believe that some Air force Col due to retired sometime between June and August was in a position to fly the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES anywhere in May. Since we have no name, we can’t check the veracity of his statements for costs or numbers of people involved. Unless one of you can point me to a source that corroborates this “retired” Air Force Col ‘s story (at which point I’ll say I was wrong)…I’ll chalk it up to nothing more than a sinister (and seemingly successful) plot to smear Obama with fake numbers and costs by a lone blogger bought into by anyone not happy with Obama.
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babysitter
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Posted 10:50, 11/04/2009
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JustAGuy
I must agree that unless someone can show who the supposed Air Force Colonel is, then it must be considered a spoof.
That is not to say that the expenses may have been in excess. While I am not an Obamanite, we must realize there is junk put online with an attempt to fuel the flames of political bias.
When I hear someone say "they said" I am always cautious. If it is important enough to repeat then who is the source?
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fiesta pantalones
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Posted 10:52, 11/04/2009
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JustAGuy - I am 100% with you on that one. It was obviously way more than $24,000, but that letter has to be a fake. The worst part is when people put out fake stuff like this, real ones start becoming suspect too.
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fiesta pantalones
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Posted 10:56, 11/04/2009
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Back to the real point of this thread....
Foxx was right that the only people that can destroy America are politicians. With yesterdays elections we can all breath a little easier. More Democrats will jump ship since it is now even more obvious that people aren't all on board with Obama. The healthcare thing will be debated for even longer and that means less time to pass more laws that take away more of our freedoms.
Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh! Democracy works again!
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fiesta pantalones
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Posted 11:3, 11/04/2009
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I just loved this line from AP...
"state Sen. Creigh Deeds in Virginia, who was clubbed like a harp seal in his 17-percentage-point loss to GOP nominee Bob McDonnell."
I will be using that one over the next few weeks. Clubbed like a harp seal. LOL
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babysitter
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Posted 11:7, 11/04/2009
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Another comment I would like to make "it is no longer Bush bashing time"
I read all the "come back" post that are in defense of Obama by bashing Bush. Reminds me of my children growing up, when I would punish one, I would most often get a "come back" "Johnny did worst that me and you didn't punish him"
Example> sorry Kate> Second, if we're going to start calculating cost, don't come back with anything until you've calculated the cost of Pres. Bush's frequent vacations and time out of DC.
If you can defend Obama with his attributes, that is one thing but to defend him by pointing to Bush failues, is childish.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 12:16, 11/04/2009
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Babysitter, no need to apologize. You make a valid point but I wasn't trying to bash Pres. Bush.
Just pointing out that this is not out of line with past practices. My point in all this has been that, unless they're putting gold plated fixtures in the West Wing's bathroom, let them destress as they see fit. They being all those who live in that house and have that job ... and anyone who thinks being the spouse or child of the President isn't a job or stressful is kidding themselves.
But you can't poke at one and ignore the actions of the other ... and honestly, so long as the work is getting done, I don't care where they spend their time or how they try to stay connected with their families.
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Stokes
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Posted 12:31, 11/04/2009
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Point of clarification: I do not care where any president takes a vacation or a date night. I do not care how much it costS as long as they USE THEIR OWN MONEY AND NOT THE TAXPAYERS. The president is paid a salary so he and his family need to do what THEY can afford, NOT WHAT THEY CAN GOUGE THE TAXPAYERS FOR!!!!! Not only that, but the Obamas and all the other presidents knew the salary when they spent all those millions to get there - so deal with it and stop pissing away the tax dollars. It is unethical, even immoral for someone that makes $50,000 a year but still has to pay taxes to help pay for anyone's date night with these taxes.
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Stokes
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Posted 12:41, 11/04/2009
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Kates posted:
I will be the first to admit the government can do more damage to the American fabric and freedoms. I hold much of Pres. Reagan's time in office and Pres. GW Bush's time there as proof positive of that sentiment.
Kate, you don't call the above statement a pot shot at Reagan?? and where did I say he was perfect?
The parallel I was drawing about your insurance is how hard it is for folks to survive in the current economy as it was for you when you didn't have insurance. Contining with that thought process, how in the hell is ok for the president to spend that much of taxpayers' money for entertainment when the taxpayers cannot put the necessity of food on the table?????? and you want to call it a pittance?? Your gauge of a pittance is out of the park in comparision to mine. Calling that amount of money a pittance is EXACTLY why our country is broke and has sold our souls to the Chinese.
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commonsense
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Posted 15:8, 11/04/2009
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stokes, Kate posted at the top an example of what a joke the dishonarable congresswoman and all around idiot that Foxx is. If you people can't see how worthless Foxx is then you are truly brainwashed by the GOP and the evil they are trying to cause the American people by representing the insurance companies. If they were truly on the side of the people and not just for big money then they would be trying to close down the insurance companies and provide real health care.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 15:48, 11/04/2009
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Stokes, the Obamas paid for the tickets, the meal, the wine ... I'm sure they'd have taken the train to New York or flown United ... IF THEY WERE ALLOWED.
Once elected (and this is a big part of the reason I don't get upset about this stuff) they are beholden to certain criteria for security. Period. No argument. There is no room for negotiation.
A huge portion of their lives belong to the American people and the Secret Service's policies.
$24,000 ... Let's call it a half million, shall we? Assuming there are 200,000,000 taxpayers in this country (I don't know but with a population that exceeds 300 million people, I think I'm not over estimating) that's three tenths of a cent.
That, my friend, by anyone's standards, is a pittance.
Let's not allow this sort of thing to divert us from the real concerns facing this country and the real work of running this country.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 15:53, 11/04/2009
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And your other point about taking a pot shot at Pres. Reagan ...
The definition of that phrase is:
pot·shot n.
1. A random or easy shot.
2. A criticism made without careful thought and aimed at a handy target for attack: i.e. "reporters taking potshots at the mayor."
I did not take a pot shot at Pres. Reagan. I have thought long and hard about him and his presidency and my vote for him the first term. My comments about him are valid and pertinent to the conversation and helped make my point.
That is neither random nor without thought.
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commonsense
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Posted 19:2, 11/04/2009
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Stokes, I don't see how telling the truth is considered a pot shot. The truth is Reagan was just no good, a low down SOB. You can call that a pot shot if you like, but it is simply the truth that nothing good can be said about that @#$hole.
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Stokes
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Posted 23:10, 11/04/2009
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Oh Kate of course you are right, you are always right and everyone else is always wrong. What in the hell was I thinking?
common, I believe that description might fit you, not President Reagan.
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Stokes
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Posted 23:36, 11/04/2009
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By the way, do you think Obama and his liberals got the message the voters sent yesterday???
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liberalbender
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Posted 0:18, 11/05/2009
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Sorry-the only message I got was politics as usual.
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walks the talk
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Posted 3:45, 11/05/2009
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11/04/09 babysitter> Amen! Good post!
Yeah, Stokes, what in the hell were you thinking? lol. Some people just need more attention than we can give..lol Consider the sources, Stokes.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 6:15, 11/05/2009
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Geeze, Stokes, that sort of response I'd expect from my teenager. She'd agree with you.
We were discussing the damage our politicians can do this country. And, shockingly, I was agreeing with that point of Rep. Foxx and several on this list.
No one can hurt us like our own politicians and our own uninformed and ill-informed actions ... or our own willful inaction.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 6:42, 11/05/2009
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Stokes, the message? What message?
Two governors who haven't been doing a good job got canned and an outsider who didn't know a thing about the local concerns of the constituency he wanted to represent, even with the endorsement of his party's heavy hitters didn't win. Also, the voting population is still against same sex marriage.
O, or do you mean the message that most voters in this country still don't value their privilege enough to bother to use it?
Voter turn outs of 23, 16 and freakin 13 percent (of registered voters not the entire population) across this country?
Yeah, the message is, we don't really care.
Lib hit it ... politics as usual.
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Stokes
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Posted 9:58, 11/05/2009
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Kate, you just can't help yourself can you? You either have no clue or don't care how you sound. You just continue to insult my intelligence. If I don't agree with your opinion, I am all sorts of things including childish. There is no having a debate with you about an issue that we disagree on. I won't post my opinion of you because it would not be appropriate. We weren't having a debate, you were giving me what for because of my thoughts and opinions and the fact they were different from yours and then you will respond with: who me, I did no such thing.
The only other thing that I am going to say is: Wait until the mid term elections. There just might be some more surpirses like Tuesday's.
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slab
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Posted 20:56, 11/05/2009
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hey Kate.. I guess I'll have to disagree with you on the politics as usual piece. I think it was a message despite the low percentage turnout. I see it more like how polls are taken. I mean how can you poll 1500 people out of a 300 million and get an accurate estimate of what people are thinking? I was sure they were all wrong when they showed Obama ahead in the polls last year, just because I thought it was impossible, but now we know it was true. Yes, I realize that it was possible that the % of people who voted Tuesday were more republicans, but there were exit polls that showed the % of independents who voted for Obama voted for the Republican candidates. THAT alone is detrimental for the democrat party. It was a message. Also, I am most often (almost 100% of the time) on the opposite side of the majority. Right now I am on Obama's side... so there you go.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 6:23, 11/06/2009
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Slab, it's all good. Opposing view points make us think, make us stronger. I see what you (and others) are saying even if I don't agree.
I can't get beyond the fact that the thing that I feel is the most important privilege we have, our vote, is not cherished by more people.
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liberalbender
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Posted 10:47, 11/06/2009
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I said politics as usual cause the winning party in a national election ususally loses in the next election...and that's what happened. Plus, many thought President Obama should have snapped his fingers and made it all better. We are an impatient country! And it is terrible that so few vote, and then people want to know why things don't get better. How can they if our power(our vote) is not used? If you don't vote-you have no right to complain! So I hope that everyone on here voted-cause we complain alot! I was #97 :o)
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fiesta pantalones
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Posted 11:10, 11/06/2009
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I never understood the arguement that everyone should vote everytime. No they shouldn't. If you don't know the issues or the candidates then you shouldn't vote. If you are going to vote for someone just because of the party (straight ticket) then you shouldn't vote. Just because it is a right doesn't mean that everyone should take advantage of it.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 14:53, 11/06/2009
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Fiesta, I don't disagree with your basic premise ...uninformed voting is foolish.
I feel it is my responsibility to be informed, to have an opinion and to express it. Even if it's to write in someone not on the ticket to register my presence and lack of support of any of the choices.
Your larger contention ... I believe my vote is an incredibly precious thing. It is not compulsory and should never be ... but it shouldn't HAVE to be.
People have given up their freedom and, in some cases, died to give me the right to vote and participate in the course of this nation. I can't imagine telling them I'm not interested ... can't be bothered ....
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BlizzardAge
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Posted 22:52, 11/06/2009
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Perhaps it was hyperbole intended to inflame, but I understand her underlying point. I only hate that she's not consistent enough to apply her fear of government to the American Empire she so proudly supports and consistently votes to sustain.
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liberalbender
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Posted 8:4, 11/07/2009
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Perhaps I should have said that I do not understand folks that are so unconcerned about the town they LIVE IN...that they cannot spend 15 minutes to read about the drink issues & 7 candidates on the ballot. A vote is not only a right-it is a responsibility.
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KateRauhauserSmith
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Posted 9:46, 11/07/2009
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Amen, Lib.
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Stokes
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Posted 9:28, 11/10/2009
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If the senate goes along with Saturday's house vote, it will do more damage than any of terrorist attacks to date because it will harm every citizen.
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liberalbender
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Posted 17:39, 11/10/2009
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To those that think health care reform will destroy us...what do you think should be done?
I just got my health care plan for 2010...deductible is up, annual out-of-pocket doubled, ER & hospital costs up, prescriptions way up and must be on the "formulary" list. But we are still lucky cause we have insurance.
So are all ya'll happy with your health insurance? You're not seeing big jumps in cost? If you don't like the health plan being considered-then give us some other options to control costs...please!
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Grams
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Posted 18:53, 11/10/2009
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I have already done that on the universal healthcare thread.
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slab
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Posted 22:55, 11/10/2009
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lib, I don't think any reform will change the cost anyway. I think it just gives everybody an opportunity to have health insurance, but the cost and possibly the benefits will be the same. It would be nice for it not to be that way, but I bet it will be.
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Naomi
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Posted 18:13, 11/11/2009
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Our country is in such partisan deadlock that I wonder if it can ever be corrected. When Virginia Foxx, who is an elected representative, makes statements that sound more like Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, who promote disdain for anyone who doesn't believe in their divisive rhetoric, shouldn't we be concerned? Don't we expect a member of Congress to be more astute than those two, who admit they want President Obama's administration to fail?
Now let's be fair for a moment and look at the facts: The former administration inherited a balanced budget, no wars and a good economy. Obama inherited over $1 trillion of debt, two wars that are costing a $1 billion a month -- and will go up if more troops are added -- the worst economy since the Great Depression, and the rest of the world's low opinion of us. Yet these pundits, and some in Congress, are trying to convince us that our country is in a state of dystopia and it is Obama's administration that has caused it.
How obtuse would you have to be to expect Obama to solve problems of this magnitude in just nine months?
This is too serious to be about politics, instead of what is best for our country. Where is their patriotism? Oh, well, I guess they still have their lapel pins; after all, that is what counts, right?
NAOMI
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commonsense
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Posted 20:34, 11/11/2009
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Naomi, That was a great post. You couldn't have put it any better. Now sit back and wait for these close minded repubs to start the attack and prove you right on every bit of it.
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Ms Conservative
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Posted 20:54, 11/11/2009
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Jesus Christ, commonsense, get over yourself.
Obama has not been criticized any more that George Bush, or the elder Bush or Reagan when all of them were president. You democrats just can't take criticism but you surely can dish it out. However when it comes your way, all you do is whine.
Naomi aka Tommy Garner, who wrote the above post for you??
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T_mmy Boy
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Posted 21:14, 11/11/2009
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It's call PLAGIARISM!
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